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Tinderboxes?

bilowywhistle

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Personally I feel that with the introduction of the beads of restoration that the tinderbox issue can be put to bed. I really like the beads idea and felt it was a creative alternative to tinderboxes and honestly thought they were intended to be Atlas' solution to this request by the testers.
 

Zyfrig

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Aren't the beads dimishing the downtime enough? Honest question

It's really too early to properly judge downtime since people have no access to alchemy yet imo. The beads are a nice treat to start out with.
 

Rhyme

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Aren't the beads dimishing the downtime enough? Honest question
My experience with the beads are that they do not drop often enough. While leveling my ns to 25, soling, I think I managed to get about 15 beads in total. I did some grouping in between in frontiers, so I cannot say how much they would drop if I constantly soloed. Each bead lasts, I think it was 30 seconds if I am not mistaken. Thats a total of 7.5 minutes for 15 beads. 7.5 minutes is not a long time while solo leveling. Seeing as the beads do not drop all the time, so the uptime of the beads are not guaranteed. They do not add any dmg add either. And lastly, they arent usable in frontiers or above level 30. The beads do help, I cannot refute that, but they do not help enough. If you have one, you pop it, but if you do not, you have to just sit it out. If the timer was extended to say 5 minutes, that would probably make the beads overpowered.
Maybe if they added damage add, dropped more often, were stackable and could be used up until say 48-49, then I suppose they could work instead of the tinderboxes. But in the end, whats the difference? It would be the same thing just with a different name and timer.

I understand those who think tinders are or can be too much. Groups do not need them really, it just provides a small QoL experience. But I think that many forget solo players who do not have time to play in a group on a daily basis, and only have the option to play a few hours a week. At that rate, leveling is a nightmare and simply too time consuming. Another positive thing about tinderboxes was that they could be bought on the Auction House and used on a lowbie when desired. This gave the solo player an opportunity to gear up and play alone when they had the time and try to maximize their experience gain while playing. I cannot imagine how long it would take to solo level a nightshade while playing 4-5 hours a week.
If tinders do not affect balance for RvR, which is this games goal, then I do not see why they should be omitted.
 

Jhaerik

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Solo leveling an assassin or a tank is a long and tedious task without the help of tinderboxes. Having to sit and wait for endurance to regen or life to regen in order to attack the next mob just takes the fund out of leveling those classes. And getting a group on a stealther is very hard as well, so that creates a massive gap in the leveling process. If no one takes the stealther or helps them out, they can be stuck leveling for weeks on end. Tinderboxes help out by reducing the regen time, and adding some damage to pve if they work like they did on the other server. They work out of combat for regen, and hence only work when not fighting a mob. However, taking the time down from 45-60 sec regen to 15-20 sec regen is a massive time save and adding a small dmg add makes leveling just an overall better experience.

I don't play stealthers so no comment on that but tanks don't have that much downtime at all from my experience. Body pull and engage and off block stun the mob. Follow that with positionals and proper reactionary usage. You'll take very little damage. Stop just spamming your taunt button and wondering why you have so much downtime.
 

Recoill

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Aren't the beads dimishing the downtime enough? Honest question

Im leveling solo. They help for sure, but they only are usable up until level 30. Which is right when leveling actually starts to slow down. Its kind of off in that regard. You dont exactly have to sit very long comparatively below level 30 man. Its after that level that it becomes a slog, so the beads are kinds odd to me. They would be infinitely more useful providing a boost for the levels after 30 rather than before.

Also not usable in DF leveling at all for obvious reasons.
 
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I personally loved the tinder boxes on Phoenix. They helped me a lot with leveling, and especially farming, as later on I really only ever played duo with one friend. I understand why people would be hesitant about them though.

What do these said Beads actually do?
 

Curad

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I think tinderboxes only really cater to the min/max crowd in terms of power-leveling or leveling in general. It creates a scenario where certain classes no longer have to rely on power / endo regen classes, which in my opinion is negative to gameplay health.

It also would be abused in PvP for the damage add it provided on Phoenix, and quick recovery after a fight. Just by adding Tinderboxes, you change the entire flow of the game and people will just play around that instead. People will opt to buy these over regen pots, which just hurts alchemy sales. I can go on and on, lol. I apparently don't like them.

Also not needed even for casual play you can go 1 - 35 in a day easy. Let people re-live as much classic element as they can. QoL was out of control on Phoenix to the point where it felt like a different game.
The Damage add never worked in PVP zones, trust me, I tried it....
 

Ingvold

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The beads work great, perfect after a rough pull. Tinderboxes are too close to ToA Perfector fonts for my taste.
 

sehenry

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I am still a bit confused...why do people care about tinderboxes?

They do help in PvE a LOT, I get that, but in PvP I don't remember them ever being used.

#1 the regen effect doesn't help because no one sits around long enough in one place to take advantage of it. Ok, maybe defending a keep it could help, but is it really a big help? I never ran out of mana during keep takes/defense with or without tinderboxes.

#2 I don't remember the dmg add helping in PvP at all, but I could be wrong.

I mean, if you don't like them, then just don't use them. They aren't going to make a group go from 1-50 much faster if the group has a bard/shaman/sorc, but if the group does not have a mana regen class then it will be a huge help. How often will a group level without one of those classes? I mean seriously, the first thing you ask for is one of those classes when putting together a lvling group. I group of friends who don't want more people then the 2-3 of them and want some xp could greatly take advantage of the tinderbox, but is that a bad thing? Is there a problem with a non-optimal group using a tinderbox to try to lvl?

If the dmg add does help in PvP, I see an issue, but just take that out.

If this is strictly a PvE thing, who really cares???
 

Rhyme

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I think that tinderboxes will be a positive asset for PvE, primarily leveling and those who do not have time to play often, or prefer to solo.
They had no impact on RvR on Phoenix, and I believe that they wont have any impact on RvR here either, so long as they get implemented in that way.
Personally, I just want to have the option to solo level when I have time, without having to be forced in a group or take an overly long time to regen back for my next mob.
 

Zyfrig

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I think that tinderboxes will be a positive asset for PvE, primarily leveling and those who do not have time to play often, or prefer to solo.
They had no impact on RvR on Phoenix, and I believe that they wont have any impact on RvR here either, so long as they get implemented in that way.
Personally, I just want to have the option to solo level when I have time, without having to be forced in a group or take an overly long time to regen back for my next mob.

Alchemy pots could help out with that just as well.
 

Rhyme

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Alchemy pots could help out with that just as well.
Alchemy pots are nowhere close to allowing that type of regen and uptime. The buffs help quite a bit, yes. The regen buffs are incredibly slow. Especially health regen. However, Alchemy's pots start becoming useful after level 30, as the lower level regen buffs are nearly negligible. Alchemy also requires money to level to make the pots themselves. Starting out on a fresh server, that is not an option, unless you want to pay higher prices on AH or spend extra time leveling, from the time you already have little of. And Alchemy does not provide any type of damage add, as tinderboxes do to help fight mobs in PvE.
I am curious as to why people are against PvE assistance? If it does not affect the RvR, which is the primary goal of the game, why are people against tinderboxes helping people level?
 

Zyfrig

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It's a matter of how far you want to go with QoL customizations really. As it stands now we will have Alchemy, Beads and procs on RoGs. You could add plenty more, including tinderboxes, but also unlimited buff NPCs such as Celestius has.

It's a matter of where you want to draw the line. That line for me sits right at tinderboxes, given regen rates are otherwise in a reasonable state, which I do feel they are now.
 

Rhyme

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It's a matter of how far you want to go with QoL customizations really. As it stands now we will have Alchemy, Beads and procs on RoGs. You could add plenty more, including tinderboxes, but also unlimited buff NPCs such as Celestius has.

It's a matter of where you want to draw the line. That line for me sits right at tinderboxes, given regen rates are otherwise in a reasonable state, which I do feel they are now.

We also have barrels for buffs, xp items and many other QoL changes. In my opinion, either stick to the patch the way it used to be, i.e. like Uthgard tried, or implement QoL changes that will assist/help the majority of the players. I do not see how tinderboxes affect the game in a negative way. On contrary, they will allow for farmers to be able to farm, people to level a tad bit faster and focus on RvR, and give soloers a possibility to level in a reason amount of time, especially stealthers.
 

Jabstar

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If they implement them as a stackable item, then it could be ok. If they don't stack, then i rather not have them. Already not alot of bag space
 

karan

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I am curious as to why people are against PvE assistance? If it does not affect the RvR, which is the primary goal of the game, why are people against tinderboxes helping people level?

At some point it just becomes a matter of internal consistency for the server. You can't disallow the non-SI races for "visual" reasons alone but then allow for QoL changes that have a major impact on gameplay (even if it's "just" PvE).
 

Sicks

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Between beads and xp items people are still able to solo to 50 pretty quickly
 

Rhyme

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At some point it just becomes a matter of internal consistency for the server. You can't disallow the non-SI races for "visual" reasons alone but then allow for QoL changes that have a major impact on gameplay (even if it's "just" PvE).
With that logic, there should not be any teleporting, instant selling and many other QoL changes.
I get the premise, but I disagree.
Non-SI races would probably be quite a hassle to implement in the established environment, and can be confusing. However, adding QoL changes for players to ensure faster and easier access to RvR, better crafting options, more comfortable leveling just ensures that the playerbase can access important parts of the game in (in my opinion) a more controlled and enjoyable fashion.
 
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