Thane

[Johny Rousquille]

Oh ! Pilzpower is going to play thane, Woot Woot !


As you explained in your post, I must say that you are partly right. The experience I have in return on phoénix:

No thane in 8v8 opti grp

Thane good for solo, duo, trio, and BG

He's a big aggro taker but he's not as strong as a warrior

Fortunately, the static storm is on the thane, which makes it an essential element for certain phases in a BG

And even being 10L8, I felt like I didn't have anything like RA, when they weren't half bugged
RA 5L on thane that I have never known on a freeshard,

But the complexity and the need to make big 100% quality armor and that's what discourages a lot of players who don't want to spend too much time and especially money on a character who will ultimately be left behind.

 

[Process]

It should be NF ST imo. Or rework it so it is a useful RA. I still don't think a NF ST will get thane in many groups, but some.

Agree 100%. OF ST is one of the most poorly thought out RAs in the entire OF RA lineup

 

[Eversor]

Thanes are a lot of fun in big fights where CC doesn't matter so much. Keeps and such too. Dropping hammers may not be very effective but it IS gratifying to see. Also having slam is pretty useful with how little Slam mid typically brings to the fight.

 

[DJ2000]

Agree 100%. OF ST is one of the most poorly thought out RAs in the entire OF RA lineup

Very unlikely to be changed.

Back then, Live 1.65, there was just no other option.
People in 2021 have now obviously more insight.

 

[Zyfrig]

Very unlikely to be changed.

Back then, Live 1.65, there was just no other option.
People in 2021 have now obviously more insight.

I'd say it is very likely to be changed. Thane is in a poor spot at this patch level and since the Dev team is clearly sensible and knowledgeable about the game they will look into the overall performance of the Thane class (as with any other class) before going Live. Old ST is an abomination and should not be overlooked.

Your post raises some valid points, but I feel your doomsday thinking is a bit premature. We'll see how things move along when it's time to really zoom in on class balance. I'm sure Thanes will receive the attention they deserve.

 

[naezgul]

I'd say it is very likely to be changed. Thane is in a poor spot at this patch level and since the Dev team is clearly sensible and knowledgeable about the game they will look into the overall performance of the Thane class (as with any other class) before going Live. Old ST is an abomination and should not be overlooked.

Your post raises some valid points, but I feel your doomsday thinking is a bit premature. We'll see how things move along when it's time to really zoom in on class balance. I'm sure Thanes will receive the attention they deserve.

Very nice passive manipulation…

 

[DJ2000]

Zyfrig
To not expect a change to OF ST is doomsday thinking? Ok, i guess.
Or did you mean the Thane 8v8 post?

But, you do seem oddly optimistic about some Thane adjustments.
Didn't feel, to me at least, that they were going to touch the Thane at all.

I'd surely welcome it to a degree, but i wouldn't expect too much of it, even if they did something till the launch.

(Are you expecting some adjustments to the Class itself or just to OF ST?)

 

[Zyfrig]

Zyfrig
To not expect a change to OF ST is doomsday thinking? Ok, i guess.
Or did you mean the Thane 8v8 post?

But, you do seem oddly optimistic about some Thane adjustments.
Didn't feel, to me at least, that they were going to touch the Thane at all.

I'd surely welcome it to a degree, but i wouldn't expect too much of it, even if they did something till the launch.

(Are you expecting some adjustments to the Class itself or just to OF ST?)

They have already made adjustments by giving Thane access to Det 3.

Granted, this is not because of a Thane specific issue, but at this point we're still far removed from any serious balance effort for RAs in general. The fact that they're already implementing these things is -to me- proof that they intend to reach reasonable balance before launch. They had Thane changes in their original server setting so I'm sure they are aware of its position in 1.65.

This is why I'm cautiously optimistic.

 

[DJ2000]

Yeah, i remember those.
But the fact that we didn't see them along the Paladin and Hybrid-Det announcements, signaled to me that those were cut.
The "design" phase seems over anyway, as the testing phase has already kicked in (which i still can't participate in ), that also signaled to me that there won't be any planned adjustments/changes anymore.

Well, i could be wrong.
Other classes, i expect some adjustments to be made for them, are also still untouched....yet.

Those scrapped changes were basically the phoenix-thane treatment.
So you expect those to be back, i guess. Ok, fair enough.

 

[joshisanonymous]

I kind of agree. I don't think we can write off adjustments to things like ST, either, though I'm not exactly expecting that specific change.

[Start of semi-off-topic tangent]
It feels like the devs here have in their vision that the server should only include the bare minimum of changes from 1.65 -- which I think is why you're often saying things like it's no use discussing changes that will never happen, D DJ2000 ? -- but I don't see that as panning out ultimately. 1.65 was just too imbalanced, and importantly IMO, it lacks variety. If you're running an MMO of any sort, even one where most of the fun is player-driven (as opposed to pure themeparks that require devs to constantly churn out content to keep people interested), there needs to be something to keep people coming back over a long term. To me, there are two ways to do this:

1. Provide a wide range of classes and specs for people to try out.
   • Relatedly, make sure the leveling process is not too fast so that it actually takes some time to try out many classes/specs in the first place.
2. Release world content.

For a freeshard, (2) is quite limited. Most world content is going to just be implementing zones and such that exist in the official version of the game since it would be a massive undertaking to create entire new zones (although they arguably did this for the WAR freeshard). Additionally, for an RvR focused game, the amount of meaningful RvR world content that can be implemented is even smaller. In the case of DAoC, the only other non-PvE zone they could really add is the Labyrinth (or go a really weird route like the Era server is doing and include both OF and NF). They could add PvE zones, and that would help in some ways, but not like RvR content would.

The more reasonable approach to keeping people around and interested is (1). If someone reaches a high RR in their first class and gets bored, they could of course start playing another class, and there are plenty to choose from, but the choices are multiplied even further if there are a few viable specs for each class, including the one they've already been playing. Unfortunately, 1.65 offers very few viable specs per class, so this is an area that's just waiting for development.

Releatedly, playing against the same group setups and class specs all the time can become boring, and this is issue is addressed by customizing classes to either have more viable specs and/or to make them viable in competitive play in the first place if they're not already.
[End of semi-off-topic tangent]

So, in the case of thanes, I won't be surprised if they receive further customizations of some sort. Maybe it won't happen before launch, but I suspect the devs will ultimately decide that they need to be willing to customize classes to increase the longevity of the server.

 

[DJ2000]

joshisanonymous
@Tangent:
Your vision is not their vision.
Everything you said/wrote was done so in good faith, and with the best intentions in mind.
Yet and still, your way of thinking as to "how it should be done" is exactly that; yours, and nothing more. Which they may acknowledge but not share as a whole.

Their course of this project and way to approach things has been laid out through numerous posts, to proclaim or in form of responses, and can be best summed up here: https://www.atlasfreeshard.com/vision/
I did a similar post already that can be found here: https://www.atlasfreeshard.com/thre...gy-to-balance-patch-1-65-of-ras.175/post-3587

But back to the @Thane.
As long as the Thane is functioning as a class (not as a specific role), i see no room for adjustments to push him into a certain direction.
That's why, just like phoenix, the earlier planned (now canned) changes were mostly reduced spell costs/cast time and such.
They were in no way at the same level as the Paladin changes, nor were they intended to be.

Which is something that helps the Thane, sure, but that is not really something i would ask or wish for.
And at that point, the custom changes would just pile up. And that seems to be a no-no for the Atlas Team, for the time being.

 

[Zyfrig]

I don't expect the scrapped changes to all make it back, I just think the right mindset is there so the issues raised here -which are for the most part valid- will likely be addressed. In which way is anyone's guess.

They scrapped the majority of the preconceived changes because they wanted to be able to implement them in conjunction with testing. I think you're drawing the wrong conclusions from the current tests, which are mainly and primarily focused on server performance.

 

[Spiegal]

In thid, Thane are great to find Stealthers... But yeah not much to offer lvl 50. I guess a a small man would be his only spot.

 

[Katela]

I think the three different timer instas work nice. Right now two single target insta dds and the insta aoe are on three different timers. Was it always like that?

 

[naezgul]

I think the three different timer instas work nice. Right now two single target insta dds and the insta aoe are on three different timers. Was it always like that?

3 insta?
Thought was insta single dd
Cast single dd, cast aoe
Insta pbaoe

 

[Spiegal]

3 insta?
Thought was insta single dd
Cast single dd, cast aoe
Insta pbaoe

2 insta DD
1 insta pbaoe
1 cast DD
1 cast Aoe

 

[naezgul]

2 insta DD
1 insta pbaoe
1 cast DD
1 cast Aoe

So is it like the Rever the top to Insta cast in the spell line can be used

 

[Spiegal]

So is it like the Rever the top to Insta cast in the spell line can be used

hmm don't know about the reaver, never played one. All I can say is yes those insta DD are on different timers.
Bear in mind that one of the Insta DD is low level (lvl 34) so the resistance will probably be high for that one and Thane don't have access to Mastery of Focus, it's already super high on thid with a resist of 20+%.
Thane are really a niche, as they don't fit much in 8v8. But, since purge is on a 30 min timer, maybe some compositions will allow a thane since they will get det 3 compare to a BD or supp RM.

 

[Saruro]

2 insta DD
1 insta pbaoe
1 cast DD
1 cast Aoe

That sounds like a bug. Thanes should have only 2 instant DDs (1 single and 1 PBAOE spell):

Damage	​ 1 3 6 9 13 17 23 29 38 48​
Buff (Self, STR)	2 7 14 20 30 41 50
Damage Add (Self)	4 11 15 21 27 36 46
Damage (PBAOE, Instant)	5 8 10 12 18 25 34 44
Damage (Instant)	5 8 10 12 18 25 34 44
Damage (AOE)	16 22 35 45

http://play.nixian.eu/index.php?page=charbuilder&class=thane

See also: https://web.archive.org/web/2007051...fm?ThreadKey=10853&DefMessage=621339&forum=48

 

[naezgul]

Yeah those two instant single target DD’s are on the same timer so it’s pointless against anatomy to be using the lower level