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No Stealth classes

Scorpio28

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Unpopular opinion- Eliminate all stealth classes...except minst just take away stealth from them.

Seriously, what balance do they bring to the game? If anyone can give me a legitimate reason i'll retract my statement.

I'm failing to see what they bring to the table other than being OP'ed with DPS while getting C.S.'s off. This goes for bow classes too.
9/10 times, at least every fights i've observed or been in..the non stealth class loses against the stealth. Doesn't matter if it's caster or tank class.
 
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Nephamael

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Unpopular opinion- Eliminate all stealth classes...except minst just take away stealth from them.

Seriously, what balance do they bring to the game? If anyone can give me a legitimate reason i'll retract my statement.

I'm failing to see what they bring to the table other than being OP'ed with DPS while getting C.S.'s off. This goes for bow classes too.
9/10 times, at least every fights i've observed or been in..the non stealth class loses against the stealth. Doesn't matter if it's caster or tank class.

In fact DaoC stealth is one of the things that makes the solo game so special.


Also stealth solos are necessary to improve the amount of solo fights at high population, as they can sneak past groups, which visible solos can't and therefore create action for all solos, stealthers and visibles.



Last but not least: Try a LW hero, warrior, slash or crush pole arms, merc, champ, bm, zerker, vw, reaver - they all do great vs stealthers.
Even SM and BD have decent winrates and eld while being bad vs sins is great vs archers.

In fact merc and champ are the perfect example of 2 classes that are 2 strong vs sins, leading to sins not attacking them anymore - the other listed classes all have at least a slightly positive winrate, but not too far away from beatable, so they are attacked frequently.
 

Stewbeedoo

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Unpopular opinion- Eliminate all stealth classes...except minst just take away stealth from them.

Seriously, what balance do they bring to the game? If anyone can give me a legitimate reason i'll retract my statement.

I'm failing to see what they bring to the table other than being OP'ed with DPS while getting C.S.'s off. This goes for bow classes too.
9/10 times, at least every fights i've observed or been in..the non stealth class loses against the stealth. Doesn't matter if it's caster or tank class.
I think you are really complaining about Assassins. Most of my solo kills on Hunter/Ranger have come primarily against other stealth, some casters and a hybrid. I've never beaten a tank and I'm easy pickings for hybrids too.

Anyway, I don't think Assassins bring balance to the game per se. But they are popular and there is a part of the population that wants to play them.
 
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I think the idea behind stealth has always been that they're meant to pick of stragglers trying to catch up to zergs so as to reduce the ability for a realm to easily reinforce their front line, and they seem to accomplish this at least to some degree. I think that role kind of falls apart though since most assassins only seem interested in dueling other assassins in the middle of the highest traffic bottlenecks they can find.
 

Skorpa

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Unpopular opinion- Eliminate all stealth classes...except minst just take away stealth from them.

Seriously, what balance do they bring to the game? If anyone can give me a legitimate reason i'll retract my statement.

I'm failing to see what they bring to the table other than being OP'ed with DPS while getting C.S.'s off. This goes for bow classes too.
9/10 times, at least every fights i've observed or been in..the non stealth class loses against the stealth. Doesn't matter if it's caster or tank class.
Yeah ok. Given the current population you want even less people playing your customized version of daoc? lol
 
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You could certainly argue that the stealth implementation in DAoC is pretty poor overall. I might even agree with you about that. However, many players literally only play this game because of those mechanics and classes. Removing them would likely remove a not insignificant amount of players from the server before it even went live. I am pretty sure we can all agree that having a high population is probably the most important thing for a game like this.
 

naezgul

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You could certainly argue that the stealth implementation in DAoC is pretty poor overall. I might even agree with you about that. However, many players literally only play this game because of those mechanics and classes. Removing them would likely remove a not insignificant amount of players from the server before it even went live. I am pretty sure we can all agree that having a high population is probably the most important thing for a game like this.
Fix detection
Increase range with increase of enemy stealthed characters.
 

Druth

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Some stealthers are not a problem.
I hate them, don't get me wrong, omg I've ranted about stealthers, but only when they start being popular and go above 20% of active population.

It adds to the flavour of the game that not all "INC!!!" is visible, keeps people on their toes.

But Phoenix had a combination of stealthers being able to kill most classes 1:1 without landing PA, and at the same time being impossible to find when stealthed. Then they also got Vanish, but that wont happen here, so thats a plus...
 

Cadebrennus

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Stewbeedoo

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Some stealthers are not a problem.
I hate them, don't get me wrong, omg I've ranted about stealthers, but only when they start being popular and go above 20% of active population.

It adds to the flavour of the game that not all "INC!!!" is visible, keeps people on their toes.

But Phoenix had a combination of stealthers being able to kill most classes 1:1 without landing PA, and at the same time being impossible to find when stealthed. Then they also got Vanish, but that wont happen here, so thats a plus...
I agree with you, but it's interesting how you talk about "stealthers" but then only refer to assassin imbalance issues. Archers often get lumped into the conversations about stealthers being OP. But archers are basically considered a joke 1 v 1. Now that there are Pots in the game Rangers and Hunters are truly irrelevant 1 v 1.
 

phixion

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Sure, if you want a dead game.

Some people don't have the time or desire to stand at a portal keep for an hour to try and get a meta group going for RvR, only for it to fall apart when the first run is a fail.
 

Tool73

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Main problems lay here, i would like to see staff working fast on it

-> https://www.atlasfreeshard.com/tick...hanic-bubble-intercept-maybe-others-too.1563/
(no defense atm vs PA, Bubble breaks, instead to be up for next swing -> Stunstyle when 2h PA)
-> https://www.atlasfreeshard.com/tickets/stealth-openers-wont-give-a-target.1485/
(no autotarget when get shot)
-> https://www.atlasfreeshard.com/tick...to-target-for-some-seconds.1351/#message-2966
(no arrows shown either, to get info about from where shot came)
-> https://www.atlasfreeshard.com/tickets/group-stealth-vision-not-classic.1509/
(sneaks see each other up to 2-3k locs when grped)
-> https://www.atlasfreeshard.com/tickets/avoiding-rupt-with-rapid-fire.1546/
(no rupt when doing rapid fire)
-> https://www.atlasfreeshard.com/tickets/rapid-fire-and-regular-fire-doing-same-damage-vs-dummys.1476/
(same damage Rapird Fire and normal shot)
-> https://www.atlasfreeshard.com/tick...-pa-no-weapon-skill-needed.1424/#message-3408 (rejected)
(alle 2H attacks no care if weaponskill in it have 0 variance and hit for full damage)

On this Server now EVERY REALM has pretty 2H PA.

Sorry guys, but didnt see ANY lvl 50 Inf/Ns doing PA with Staff for ALLWAYS full damage, cause the variance was much higher. Only saw this classes running arround in thidranki with a staff, accepting variances. No one has Assasin on Uth, doing some tests via puppet there????

All this bugs or not bugs TOGETHER makes all stealth class in the moment pretty strong. We have to live with it.
 
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Howdypal

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It is my personal opinion that this would be detrimental to the health of this server as I feel the cons would outweigh the pros.

Here's how I see it.

Pros
------
+ Minstrels rarely need stealth but it can be useful.
+ Not being ganked out of nowhere.

Cons
------
- Stealth is part of the classic daoc experience.
- This would have a negative effect on server population as many choose to have a stealth class as their main, or just enjoy them in general.
- This would take away the joy of killing a stealth class as a visible class.
- Minstrels rarely need stealth but it can be useful.
 

keen

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Delete stealth from minst please. There is no reason that they should have ever gotten it. Especially with old RA (ok lets just assume old RA were balanced) it just puts albion on top of every food chain in stealth game. just stupid.
 

Tool73

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Delete stealth from minst please. There is no reason that they should have ever gotten it. Especially with old RA (ok lets just assume old RA were balanced) it just puts albion on top of every food chain in stealth game. just stupid.

I allways liked to play weaker realms stealth, like Hunter on Uth2 (highest rank is 7, look at all other sneak rr there). Killed all other sneak classes there, regardless of their rr, but not at chain, it was very patience work allways, to get the right moment.

Somehow its like to be an Old Man (what most of us are) fighting a much younger one, the younger can only loose. If he wins, he is the man who beaten up an older man, but if he loose, he lost vs the weakest thing possible.... ;-D
 

DJ2000

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Good or bad, doesn't matter.
Unless you (or some like-minded) create a DaoC shard with no stealth (classes), there will never exist such a server.

That would also be a setting you would announce with the server itself, and not something you would retroactively change mid-launch or even after-launch.

DaoC remained the only (MMORPG) Game to use this kind of stealth mechanic for a reason.
Depending on your standpoint, that is a positive or a negative.
 

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